A very interesting conversation, thank you. If you want to be pro-Palestinian, that's your prerogative, so long as you direct that energy in productive ways. But when you start weaponizing your Jewish identity against your fellow Jews, you deserve to be considered a traitor and pariah within your community.
I enjoyed this interview. Just a couple of thoughts:
Regarding the "A-Y Strategy", my experience is that it begins as an "A-M" strategy where the first half of the causes are relatively anodyne things, and then N-Y are increasingly extreme, fringe things. For example, "it's bad for police to kill unarmed black people" becomes "defund the police and release everyone from prison".
Regarding maliciousness in "Jewish Voices for Peace". I have little-no familiarity with that organization in particular. Speaking generally about similarly progressive organizations though, I think it's entirely possible there are no actually malicious people. Decent people with decent objectives and values can accept some horrific beliefs if they construct an epistemic fortress that enforces ignorance. This was touched on a bit: "Palestinians did something bad, thus they must have had a reason". Relatedly: conflicting evidence, can be dismissed as bigoted propaganda. "The misinformation that Hamas butchered babies is racist and designed to make war crimes against Palestinian people permissible."
I’ve been wavering on the idea of herem against the actively anti-Israel Hamastinian jews - including neturei karta (not pro-Palestinian, that’s legitimate) but i think the main consideration now should be what Blake pointed out - Jewish communities are in crisis, with real threats of violence no matter where in the world you live (most fear worse to come). And they are doing their part to enable this. There was a particularly obnoxious xtweet from one woman, “notice how us anti zionist jews are not afraid?” So, despite other risks, I come down now in the side of excluding these people from the Jewish people. They have excluded themselves.
A very interesting conversation, thank you. If you want to be pro-Palestinian, that's your prerogative, so long as you direct that energy in productive ways. But when you start weaponizing your Jewish identity against your fellow Jews, you deserve to be considered a traitor and pariah within your community.
I enjoyed this interview. Just a couple of thoughts:
Regarding the "A-Y Strategy", my experience is that it begins as an "A-M" strategy where the first half of the causes are relatively anodyne things, and then N-Y are increasingly extreme, fringe things. For example, "it's bad for police to kill unarmed black people" becomes "defund the police and release everyone from prison".
Regarding maliciousness in "Jewish Voices for Peace". I have little-no familiarity with that organization in particular. Speaking generally about similarly progressive organizations though, I think it's entirely possible there are no actually malicious people. Decent people with decent objectives and values can accept some horrific beliefs if they construct an epistemic fortress that enforces ignorance. This was touched on a bit: "Palestinians did something bad, thus they must have had a reason". Relatedly: conflicting evidence, can be dismissed as bigoted propaganda. "The misinformation that Hamas butchered babies is racist and designed to make war crimes against Palestinian people permissible."
Love the Free Palestine sign!
very interesting conversation with Blake.
I’ve been wavering on the idea of herem against the actively anti-Israel Hamastinian jews - including neturei karta (not pro-Palestinian, that’s legitimate) but i think the main consideration now should be what Blake pointed out - Jewish communities are in crisis, with real threats of violence no matter where in the world you live (most fear worse to come). And they are doing their part to enable this. There was a particularly obnoxious xtweet from one woman, “notice how us anti zionist jews are not afraid?” So, despite other risks, I come down now in the side of excluding these people from the Jewish people. They have excluded themselves.