How do I audition for the secular American-Jew spot? I got takes, ladies. So much to say about Kanye but, to keep it short, I hope he’s napping somewhere and no one lets him make any large purchases.
100% agree with Yael about left-wing vs right-wing antisemitism. Right-wing is like, of course. Left-wing sucks because if you’re liberal like me -- and maybe this is where secular US Jews are more affected (see, you need me) -- youd like to think you share the same political values as people on the Left but Progressives are practically pushing Jews out of the Democratic Party.
ChayaLeah, I totally grew up being told that everyone hates Jews and they’ll always blame us for something. Verbatim.
Welp, that’s enough from me. You know where to find me for these hot Jew in the Wild takes. And glad ChayaLeah made it through the holiday season!!!
to get a little further into it, as we know Left-wing antisemitism also sees Jews as all-powerful. So, they will weaponize antisemitism against the Right when they can, i.e. Gina Corano in February 2021 and Kanye now.
The Left's cynical (and antisemitic) view is, "can't say anything about the Jews, we got him now!" and they pounce. To both left and right, we're the only group too powerful to criticize.
To be fair, there are a lot of Jewish groups calling out Kanye so this is slightly different. But either way, the whole thing just reinforces the original stereotype and we can't win.
The Kanye stuff made me wonder if there will be a transfer for wokeness to the right. Kanye shows how living through the framework of Oppressed Victiminhood (CRT / critical social justice theory / etc) is traumatizing in itself. Increasingly people are switching sides bc of how fundamentalist and absurd and hypocritical has become, but it makes me wonder if some of their ideologies will transfer over as well. Kanye’s perspective is still compatible with the leftist perspective that black people are the most oppressed, and that Jews are privileged. Really the antisemitism (amongst other issues) on both the right and left are mirror images of one another, just expressed through a different cultural class context. Black Hebrew Israelite ideology honestly makes perfect sense to me as a grande finale of wokeness, it’s like it comes full circle:
But overall I agree with your take on it. Left wing antisemitism is more grating and insidious bc it comes with more self righteousness, double standards, passive aggression etc. Right wing antisemitism is just has hateful but maybe it’s more honest about what it presents itself as.
Christian confession time: I envy the Jews. I feel bad about that bc the Holocaust, antisemitism, tay sachs,, but it’s true. I envy the family, the traditions, the option to live in community with others going all in on the religion or not so much and everyone still considering each other part of the same tribe. I envy that the Jews don’t proselytize, they can be very religious AND still dgaf what others believe as long as the Jews are allowed to practice and believe what they want.
I mean, I’m still Christian because I believe in the saving grace of believing in Christ’s forgiveness and because it’s the faith I was born into and I see value in practicing a healthy faith that is one’s family and cultural tradition, if one is so lucky to be born into a healthy enough faith tradition, but man... the Jews do faith so beautifully and I wish my faith did a lot of things like the Jews.
Please don’t ❤️hahahaha. But, thank you for making the show welcoming to all. Fwiw, I was secular/ambivalent until about 38, and then faith for healthy faith’s sake just became the next human experience I was ready for. I get so much from your conversations because I too am straggling the line between mainstream “intellectual” secular culture and wishing I had a mature, faithful peer community.
I also have seen individual Christian’s faith practice become more grounded and mature after studying Judaism. Many Jewish scholars are generous in sharing the wisdom of their own faith to help others deepen their own spiritual beliefs.
And I wonder how much antisemitism comes from jealousy of the jewish faith- scapegoating a people for having a sureness, purpose, faithfulness and belonging that one is lacking in their own life.
Chayleah mentioned that in one of the podcasts, that people send in their DNA to a trusted service and when young people are interested in courting they first check to see if their dna is compatible to avoid the risk of tay-sachs.
You know what I take away from that? Trust, l
This is yet another reason I love what the Jewish community has - trust. Not to say that trust is never broken, I’m sure in instances it is, but OVERALL there is still trust in the institutions of the community.
Is it weird that I fan girl over certain aspects of the Jewish faith? Maybe it’s weird, and i don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I just feel like they have observed what humans need to do to stay safe and whole and connected through the worst tragedies and also how to grow and be stable no matter what is happening around one in the world and keep humble and centered in good times. And the answer isn’t some individualistic bs, it takes family, it takes community, it takes faith and tradition.
Anyways, I’m glad to hear tay-sachs is not causing as much grief these days. Children are always a gift and I admire the forethought of the dna service, and the willingness of hormonal young people to put their loins on hold until they are sure their future children will be safe. What an act of love for their future children and an example of how true love behaves.
Thanks for sharing some insider perspective. I was being a bit cheeky commenting on the loins. What I respect about the sexual selection process is that while people may be sexually active before they decide to make a family, there is the custom of considering the health of future children before committing to marriage.
Don’t you think that in some ways every identity group can be their own worst enemy? A group Can be their own worst enemy and also their own best friend, I think. A group Can be their own worst enemy and still have a lot of other enemies too.
I am a religious person and my interest in Judaism came from my own religious development. And it is true that I had the cultural impression that the Jewish people have more institutional and cultural unity than most other religious traditions. That is an impression as an outsider. However I wonder if your sensation that Jews don’t stick together is because you have the expectation that they should. As a Christian, I don’t even feel like I have anyone to stick with. The experience of “salvation” is so individual and unique to each believer and I find that the Christian reliance on the self-proclaimed belief is often a unstable and lonely pole to balance a faithful life on. I find that Christians try to define what the salvation experience is or is not in order to give the illusion of control over salvation, when in truth it is impossible to know if or how another person will or won’t be saved. It is God’s will for you to know him or not and it is his will how he will be know.
Traditions, customs, language, clothing, rituals, a homeland or a holy place, these are tangible things to anchor one’s faith to, these are tangible behaviors to share with others and to make living a faithful life less of slog - though it is never easy and always requires commitment no matter how much scaffolding one has in their environment. Many Christian holidays are mostly celebrated without much faith. I still think culture wide Pagán holidays have a function. I still like Christmas, but very rarely do i experience Christmas as a religious celebration with others outside of the advent and Christmas masses.
People are people, the world over and I don’t presume that Jewish people are an exception to any human flaws, so of course there are people who are not practicing faithful or who have imperfect faith. And I don’t know that those people are wrong to be how they are. Without presuming that all Jews stick together I still appreciate how the religion does function as a more (not wholly) communal religious practice.
Kanye's statements make me think he picked up this Evangelical Christian attitude: we know as much or more about the Jews than they do! I think this stems from the idea that the Protestant Christian Biblical canon is literally the only correct faith tradition, in short, that Evangelical Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. It's sort of a condescending and incredibly naive viewpoint. On the positive side, Evangelicals really get into supporting Israel. So there's a fondness, but it comes across mainly as a confused fascination more than anything.
Also, florid, poorly controlled mania can resurrect every stupid junior high conspiracy theory. I feel sorry for the guy, but I wouldn't hire him as a spokesperson.
How do I audition for the secular American-Jew spot? I got takes, ladies. So much to say about Kanye but, to keep it short, I hope he’s napping somewhere and no one lets him make any large purchases.
100% agree with Yael about left-wing vs right-wing antisemitism. Right-wing is like, of course. Left-wing sucks because if you’re liberal like me -- and maybe this is where secular US Jews are more affected (see, you need me) -- youd like to think you share the same political values as people on the Left but Progressives are practically pushing Jews out of the Democratic Party.
ChayaLeah, I totally grew up being told that everyone hates Jews and they’ll always blame us for something. Verbatim.
Welp, that’s enough from me. You know where to find me for these hot Jew in the Wild takes. And glad ChayaLeah made it through the holiday season!!!
Do you worry that by adidas dropping him his followers and supporters are going to be like, “see, the Jews control everything..”??? Why do I care?!?
to get a little further into it, as we know Left-wing antisemitism also sees Jews as all-powerful. So, they will weaponize antisemitism against the Right when they can, i.e. Gina Corano in February 2021 and Kanye now.
The Left's cynical (and antisemitic) view is, "can't say anything about the Jews, we got him now!" and they pounce. To both left and right, we're the only group too powerful to criticize.
To be fair, there are a lot of Jewish groups calling out Kanye so this is slightly different. But either way, the whole thing just reinforces the original stereotype and we can't win.
YESSSS!!!! 100% I’ve been trying to explain this to people!
My 23andMe disagrees, sir, but thanks for playing.
Appreciate this and will just note I don’t consider myself atheist. But all points taken.
The Kanye stuff made me wonder if there will be a transfer for wokeness to the right. Kanye shows how living through the framework of Oppressed Victiminhood (CRT / critical social justice theory / etc) is traumatizing in itself. Increasingly people are switching sides bc of how fundamentalist and absurd and hypocritical has become, but it makes me wonder if some of their ideologies will transfer over as well. Kanye’s perspective is still compatible with the leftist perspective that black people are the most oppressed, and that Jews are privileged. Really the antisemitism (amongst other issues) on both the right and left are mirror images of one another, just expressed through a different cultural class context. Black Hebrew Israelite ideology honestly makes perfect sense to me as a grande finale of wokeness, it’s like it comes full circle:
https://themetamodernlibrarian.substack.com/p/thoughts-on-horseshoes-and-conspiracies
But overall I agree with your take on it. Left wing antisemitism is more grating and insidious bc it comes with more self righteousness, double standards, passive aggression etc. Right wing antisemitism is just has hateful but maybe it’s more honest about what it presents itself as.
Christian confession time: I envy the Jews. I feel bad about that bc the Holocaust, antisemitism, tay sachs,, but it’s true. I envy the family, the traditions, the option to live in community with others going all in on the religion or not so much and everyone still considering each other part of the same tribe. I envy that the Jews don’t proselytize, they can be very religious AND still dgaf what others believe as long as the Jews are allowed to practice and believe what they want.
I mean, I’m still Christian because I believe in the saving grace of believing in Christ’s forgiveness and because it’s the faith I was born into and I see value in practicing a healthy faith that is one’s family and cultural tradition, if one is so lucky to be born into a healthy enough faith tradition, but man... the Jews do faith so beautifully and I wish my faith did a lot of things like the Jews.
Hahahahaha. I love the podcast.
Thank you! It’s no secret that I love our non Jewish listeners twice as much as our Jewish listeners!
Please don’t ❤️hahahaha. But, thank you for making the show welcoming to all. Fwiw, I was secular/ambivalent until about 38, and then faith for healthy faith’s sake just became the next human experience I was ready for. I get so much from your conversations because I too am straggling the line between mainstream “intellectual” secular culture and wishing I had a mature, faithful peer community.
*Straddling*
I also have seen individual Christian’s faith practice become more grounded and mature after studying Judaism. Many Jewish scholars are generous in sharing the wisdom of their own faith to help others deepen their own spiritual beliefs.
And I wonder how much antisemitism comes from jealousy of the jewish faith- scapegoating a people for having a sureness, purpose, faithfulness and belonging that one is lacking in their own life.
Chayleah mentioned that in one of the podcasts, that people send in their DNA to a trusted service and when young people are interested in courting they first check to see if their dna is compatible to avoid the risk of tay-sachs.
You know what I take away from that? Trust, l
This is yet another reason I love what the Jewish community has - trust. Not to say that trust is never broken, I’m sure in instances it is, but OVERALL there is still trust in the institutions of the community.
Is it weird that I fan girl over certain aspects of the Jewish faith? Maybe it’s weird, and i don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I just feel like they have observed what humans need to do to stay safe and whole and connected through the worst tragedies and also how to grow and be stable no matter what is happening around one in the world and keep humble and centered in good times. And the answer isn’t some individualistic bs, it takes family, it takes community, it takes faith and tradition.
Anyways, I’m glad to hear tay-sachs is not causing as much grief these days. Children are always a gift and I admire the forethought of the dna service, and the willingness of hormonal young people to put their loins on hold until they are sure their future children will be safe. What an act of love for their future children and an example of how true love behaves.
Thanks for sharing some insider perspective. I was being a bit cheeky commenting on the loins. What I respect about the sexual selection process is that while people may be sexually active before they decide to make a family, there is the custom of considering the health of future children before committing to marriage.
Thank you. I appreciate the insight.
Don’t you think that in some ways every identity group can be their own worst enemy? A group Can be their own worst enemy and also their own best friend, I think. A group Can be their own worst enemy and still have a lot of other enemies too.
I am a religious person and my interest in Judaism came from my own religious development. And it is true that I had the cultural impression that the Jewish people have more institutional and cultural unity than most other religious traditions. That is an impression as an outsider. However I wonder if your sensation that Jews don’t stick together is because you have the expectation that they should. As a Christian, I don’t even feel like I have anyone to stick with. The experience of “salvation” is so individual and unique to each believer and I find that the Christian reliance on the self-proclaimed belief is often a unstable and lonely pole to balance a faithful life on. I find that Christians try to define what the salvation experience is or is not in order to give the illusion of control over salvation, when in truth it is impossible to know if or how another person will or won’t be saved. It is God’s will for you to know him or not and it is his will how he will be know.
Traditions, customs, language, clothing, rituals, a homeland or a holy place, these are tangible things to anchor one’s faith to, these are tangible behaviors to share with others and to make living a faithful life less of slog - though it is never easy and always requires commitment no matter how much scaffolding one has in their environment. Many Christian holidays are mostly celebrated without much faith. I still think culture wide Pagán holidays have a function. I still like Christmas, but very rarely do i experience Christmas as a religious celebration with others outside of the advent and Christmas masses.
People are people, the world over and I don’t presume that Jewish people are an exception to any human flaws, so of course there are people who are not practicing faithful or who have imperfect faith. And I don’t know that those people are wrong to be how they are. Without presuming that all Jews stick together I still appreciate how the religion does function as a more (not wholly) communal religious practice.
I really appreciate this exchange. Thank you for taking the time.
Kanye's statements make me think he picked up this Evangelical Christian attitude: we know as much or more about the Jews than they do! I think this stems from the idea that the Protestant Christian Biblical canon is literally the only correct faith tradition, in short, that Evangelical Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. It's sort of a condescending and incredibly naive viewpoint. On the positive side, Evangelicals really get into supporting Israel. So there's a fondness, but it comes across mainly as a confused fascination more than anything.
Also, florid, poorly controlled mania can resurrect every stupid junior high conspiracy theory. I feel sorry for the guy, but I wouldn't hire him as a spokesperson.