I think I might have misheard but us Catholics actually believe we are eating the body of Christ. It's totally sincere. To not believe that or consider it a metaphor you have to talk to protesyant.
What was interesting was you two sounded like me arguing with my protestant friends. So I guess I'm Chaya Leah yet again :)
So I’m going to join team-Yael on the “messiah or Nah” dispute. Neither Herzl nor any of the original Zionist congress, nor the large majority of the Jews who shed blood, sweat and tears draining swamps, building kibbutzim and cities and fighting and dying to defend their countrymen did so with a messianic vision in mind. Many were secular Jews who saw themselves more in Jewish racial terms rather than religious ones. Many would have gladly settled and raised their families in the diaspora if only it wasn’t so very dangerous to do so. Many only ended up on Israel’s shores because no one else would allow them access before and during the holocaust. The necessity to return to our homeland was much more a matter of safety and self determination than a belief in rebuilding the temple and ushering in the messiah. And why Israel, rather than say, Uganda? Well, it’s true it was because of our historical connection to the land where we resided mostly uninterrupted for 1500 years until the second century AD, when we were involuntarily displaced. But this deep connection to the land is not solely based on the Torah. We’re connected because we dwelled there for a very long time. Is it because God gave the land to us? Maybe, but it’s a moot argument as it can’t be proven. The secular argument of safety and self-determination can be proven however (two millennia of persecution and murder is undeniable). The messianic vision has true value but cannot be the determinant of how we run the country. If the messiah comes, well great. But until then, as Yael said, run the country for the prosperity and happiness of its people.
Chaya Leah sees “God’s hand” in the military successes of the State of Israel. I, for one, enjoy praying with my kehillah, and enjoy learning Torah when I can. But I can’t connect the act of prayer and learning with any kind of reward system for the State of Israel or for the Jewish people. What was wrong with the prayer and Torah learning of the great Yeshivas of Europe in the 1920s and 1930s that deemed God’s hand to send so many of them to the gas chambers. Has prayer and learning post 1948 suddenly stepped up so many levels since then that our fortunes have now been reversed by God? I fail to see a correlation between prayer and learning in the last two thousand years with the fate of our people. But I can’t also prove that prayer and learning doesn’t help. As the book of Job teaches us, what the hell do we know? So let’s compromise and say that prayer and learning has an important and equal role in our well being. Then let’s make it like any other profession in the world by making it merit-based. Not everyone gets to go to law school or medical school. You have to scholastically earn your place. Let the same be true for learning Torah amongst Haredim. Let the most studious and deserving sit at a table and study the Talmud. The rest can get off their tuchas’s and alleviate the strain on the IDF.
For those that argue that pure Torah dedication is the only thing that keeps us from disaster (I know Chaya Leah is NOT making this assertion) let’s no forget that in both 70CE and 132-136CE, it was Jewish zealotry that ushered the destruction of the temple, the death of hundreds of thousands of Jews (when the total Jewish population was likely not much more than one million in total), and a mass deportation from the holy land. It was the zealots who twice started a fight with the world’s most powerful military force (not completely without reason, but don’t come to a gun fight carrying a pocket knife) and who even themselves sometimes murdered Jews they deemed insufficiently pious. It was the zealots who burned down the granary stores and accelerated mass starvation when the Romans besieged Jerusalem in 70CE. So I tend to agree with Yael, who greatly fears an admittedly small minority of extremists in Israel, but who have outsized power in the government, and who base their future ideas for Gaza and the country on religious fervor.
What a long and boring rant from me! I am so sorry but once I got going I got carried away. On a much much lighter note Chaya Leah, the next time you make an apple pie, try adding cranberry sauce to neutralize the tart with no need for sugar.
Love you both. Wanted so much to join you at next week’s Manhattan get-together, but it clashes with my firm’s holiday party which I can’t miss (but I would have rather joined you guys).
I’m way late to this party, because I’ve been saving this episode for when I needed some company. Just had to pop in and tell you chicks how much I loved it. Such a great, passionate, yet also respectful back-and-forth. I love how blunt you are with each other. And yet loving. It’s what I’m here for. Thanks, Girls! 😘🙏
I think I might have misheard but us Catholics actually believe we are eating the body of Christ. It's totally sincere. To not believe that or consider it a metaphor you have to talk to protesyant.
What was interesting was you two sounded like me arguing with my protestant friends. So I guess I'm Chaya Leah yet again :)
Body-switching movie suggestion: Freaky, with Vince Vaughn. Horror movie where a serial killer and a teenage girl switch bodies
I would recommend Seconds (Dir. John Frankenheimer, 1966). Not a body-switching movie, but adjacent. One of the great American films of the 1960’s.
Hard agree with Yael that Brad Pitt is not hot
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000679301688
This is a good pod on what’s going on in Syria.
See? We knew Dan Senor would figure it out
I heard you mention his name right after I posted that 😂 great minds think alike!
Great podcast as usual Chaya Leah and Yael.
So I’m going to join team-Yael on the “messiah or Nah” dispute. Neither Herzl nor any of the original Zionist congress, nor the large majority of the Jews who shed blood, sweat and tears draining swamps, building kibbutzim and cities and fighting and dying to defend their countrymen did so with a messianic vision in mind. Many were secular Jews who saw themselves more in Jewish racial terms rather than religious ones. Many would have gladly settled and raised their families in the diaspora if only it wasn’t so very dangerous to do so. Many only ended up on Israel’s shores because no one else would allow them access before and during the holocaust. The necessity to return to our homeland was much more a matter of safety and self determination than a belief in rebuilding the temple and ushering in the messiah. And why Israel, rather than say, Uganda? Well, it’s true it was because of our historical connection to the land where we resided mostly uninterrupted for 1500 years until the second century AD, when we were involuntarily displaced. But this deep connection to the land is not solely based on the Torah. We’re connected because we dwelled there for a very long time. Is it because God gave the land to us? Maybe, but it’s a moot argument as it can’t be proven. The secular argument of safety and self-determination can be proven however (two millennia of persecution and murder is undeniable). The messianic vision has true value but cannot be the determinant of how we run the country. If the messiah comes, well great. But until then, as Yael said, run the country for the prosperity and happiness of its people.
Chaya Leah sees “God’s hand” in the military successes of the State of Israel. I, for one, enjoy praying with my kehillah, and enjoy learning Torah when I can. But I can’t connect the act of prayer and learning with any kind of reward system for the State of Israel or for the Jewish people. What was wrong with the prayer and Torah learning of the great Yeshivas of Europe in the 1920s and 1930s that deemed God’s hand to send so many of them to the gas chambers. Has prayer and learning post 1948 suddenly stepped up so many levels since then that our fortunes have now been reversed by God? I fail to see a correlation between prayer and learning in the last two thousand years with the fate of our people. But I can’t also prove that prayer and learning doesn’t help. As the book of Job teaches us, what the hell do we know? So let’s compromise and say that prayer and learning has an important and equal role in our well being. Then let’s make it like any other profession in the world by making it merit-based. Not everyone gets to go to law school or medical school. You have to scholastically earn your place. Let the same be true for learning Torah amongst Haredim. Let the most studious and deserving sit at a table and study the Talmud. The rest can get off their tuchas’s and alleviate the strain on the IDF.
For those that argue that pure Torah dedication is the only thing that keeps us from disaster (I know Chaya Leah is NOT making this assertion) let’s no forget that in both 70CE and 132-136CE, it was Jewish zealotry that ushered the destruction of the temple, the death of hundreds of thousands of Jews (when the total Jewish population was likely not much more than one million in total), and a mass deportation from the holy land. It was the zealots who twice started a fight with the world’s most powerful military force (not completely without reason, but don’t come to a gun fight carrying a pocket knife) and who even themselves sometimes murdered Jews they deemed insufficiently pious. It was the zealots who burned down the granary stores and accelerated mass starvation when the Romans besieged Jerusalem in 70CE. So I tend to agree with Yael, who greatly fears an admittedly small minority of extremists in Israel, but who have outsized power in the government, and who base their future ideas for Gaza and the country on religious fervor.
What a long and boring rant from me! I am so sorry but once I got going I got carried away. On a much much lighter note Chaya Leah, the next time you make an apple pie, try adding cranberry sauce to neutralize the tart with no need for sugar.
Love you both. Wanted so much to join you at next week’s Manhattan get-together, but it clashes with my firm’s holiday party which I can’t miss (but I would have rather joined you guys).
Thanks Ben! You said it more eloquently than I did! -Y
I’m way late to this party, because I’ve been saving this episode for when I needed some company. Just had to pop in and tell you chicks how much I loved it. Such a great, passionate, yet also respectful back-and-forth. I love how blunt you are with each other. And yet loving. It’s what I’m here for. Thanks, Girls! 😘🙏