For what it’s worth, I’ve been steeped in Evangelical Christian circles since birth in various different states in the American South and the only place I’ve ever heard this Jew apocalypse theory is from lefty Jews. Maybe it used to be a thing? M-Kat is right, we understand self defense, we can tell a white hat from a black hat, and we generally think ya’ll make good neighbors if not good bread. Peace and love ❤️ (once the ass kicking is done)
I've heard it but not from anyone mainstream and definitely not from us Catholics, who feel characteristically guilty about that whole inquisition thing.
I’ve only heard it from northern secular Jewish people. It must stem from somewhere but it isn’t in my circles. Never heard it at all in Baptist land. We’re still arguing about booze but we did use Manischewitz as the wine at baptisms which I always thought was funny. The old folks liked it because it was sweet blackberry and already “kinda religious”. 🤣
Something of a wonderful time capsule in the second half to remind us what is being fought for, and what the shitty little horror humans are trying to tare down.
Great episode! Listening to it did make me wonder if we’ve been interpreting some of the chants at pro-Palestinian rallies too harshly. Maybe they’re just saying “Gas(light) the Jews”? It’s still not a great sentiment, but we shouldn’t jump to conclusions, even in these trying times
I grew up in southern Missouri amongst conservative Christian denominations, and while there was a lot of talk about the Apocolypse, l never felt that was what drove support of Israel. "Jews are God's chosen people, and Israel belongs to them," was more the message.
Also, I agree with Chaya Leah. I wouldn't trust what Obama would do if confronted with this crisis. And, I don't believe the massacre would have happened under Trump because of his mercurial temperament. His unpredictability would have incentivized the terrorist puppet masters to think twice before unleashing their barbarism.
Mary dismissed it from a modern context, but _The Arc of a Covenant_ discusses the apocalyptic Christian view ChayaLeah asked about as a major factor in **19th century** American favor for Zionism:
«Traditional Protestant theology had assigned a central role to the Jewish people in the events of the last days. Now that American opinion believed that the United States also had been called to the center stage for this last act, the destinies of the two people seemed linked. Any sign of a Jewish return to their ancestral home would, in this electric atmosphere, appeal to the American imagination.»
This does happen in the context of two larger factors (according to Mead):
1. the belief in the inevitable spread of the American model as the only successful way for nations to compete, sweeping away stodgy authoritarian models over time, and
2. the belief that national movements (including that of the Jewish people) can play a vital part in that sweeping away, elevating people under the yoke of kings and tsars to masters of their own fate [and natural American allies] everywhere
What happened beyond the 19th century to preserve that affinity is less clear, from my reading so far.
All that said, someone who brings up Christian apocalypticism as a reason for Israel support *today* is likely attempting a bizarre, nonsensical ad hominem (i.e. "you only support Israel because you want Jews to die in the fires of Revelation", nonsensical as I said). It's such a bizarre misdirection that I can't even tell whether it's antisemitic or not.
I love this episode and MKAT!! I also know Dean Cain and can fix you up with him if you are interested xo Also still waiting for my Shabbat invite ChayaLeah
Great podcast! Love me some M-Kat!
For what it’s worth, I’ve been steeped in Evangelical Christian circles since birth in various different states in the American South and the only place I’ve ever heard this Jew apocalypse theory is from lefty Jews. Maybe it used to be a thing? M-Kat is right, we understand self defense, we can tell a white hat from a black hat, and we generally think ya’ll make good neighbors if not good bread. Peace and love ❤️ (once the ass kicking is done)
I've heard it but not from anyone mainstream and definitely not from us Catholics, who feel characteristically guilty about that whole inquisition thing.
Yes, that inquisition thing was naughty.
I’ve only heard it from northern secular Jewish people. It must stem from somewhere but it isn’t in my circles. Never heard it at all in Baptist land. We’re still arguing about booze but we did use Manischewitz as the wine at baptisms which I always thought was funny. The old folks liked it because it was sweet blackberry and already “kinda religious”. 🤣
I'm with Chaya Leah, have a Friday night dinner that is a Shabbat dinner. we need more Jewishness in the world, not less.
As long as it doesn't require the presence of other people I can call my ramen noodles shabbat, sure why not.
Something of a wonderful time capsule in the second half to remind us what is being fought for, and what the shitty little horror humans are trying to tare down.
Great episode! Listening to it did make me wonder if we’ve been interpreting some of the chants at pro-Palestinian rallies too harshly. Maybe they’re just saying “Gas(light) the Jews”? It’s still not a great sentiment, but we shouldn’t jump to conclusions, even in these trying times
😂😂
I grew up in southern Missouri amongst conservative Christian denominations, and while there was a lot of talk about the Apocolypse, l never felt that was what drove support of Israel. "Jews are God's chosen people, and Israel belongs to them," was more the message.
Also, I agree with Chaya Leah. I wouldn't trust what Obama would do if confronted with this crisis. And, I don't believe the massacre would have happened under Trump because of his mercurial temperament. His unpredictability would have incentivized the terrorist puppet masters to think twice before unleashing their barbarism.
Mary dismissed it from a modern context, but _The Arc of a Covenant_ discusses the apocalyptic Christian view ChayaLeah asked about as a major factor in **19th century** American favor for Zionism:
«Traditional Protestant theology had assigned a central role to the Jewish people in the events of the last days. Now that American opinion believed that the United States also had been called to the center stage for this last act, the destinies of the two people seemed linked. Any sign of a Jewish return to their ancestral home would, in this electric atmosphere, appeal to the American imagination.»
This does happen in the context of two larger factors (according to Mead):
1. the belief in the inevitable spread of the American model as the only successful way for nations to compete, sweeping away stodgy authoritarian models over time, and
2. the belief that national movements (including that of the Jewish people) can play a vital part in that sweeping away, elevating people under the yoke of kings and tsars to masters of their own fate [and natural American allies] everywhere
What happened beyond the 19th century to preserve that affinity is less clear, from my reading so far.
All that said, someone who brings up Christian apocalypticism as a reason for Israel support *today* is likely attempting a bizarre, nonsensical ad hominem (i.e. "you only support Israel because you want Jews to die in the fires of Revelation", nonsensical as I said). It's such a bizarre misdirection that I can't even tell whether it's antisemitic or not.
I love this episode and MKAT!! I also know Dean Cain and can fix you up with him if you are interested xo Also still waiting for my Shabbat invite ChayaLeah
Love love love