I loved the podcast. I also wanted to point out that chareidim pay school taxes just like the rest of the population but do not send their kids to public schools. Only a tiny portion trickles back into their school system.
Hi! Thank you for the very engaging podcast. Your guest made many good points about the enriching nature of the Haredi/Hasidic communities. Certainly emphasizing the problematic history of the NYT in reference to covering many aspects of the Jewish world is worth highlighting.
However... I fundamentally believe all schools - private, public, secular, religious - need to have certain expectations in reference to teaching a wide range of fundamental subjects: English, Math, Science, History, etc... Will many students not meet these standards? Of course. Will some schools and teachers be less then adequate? Yes. Will some of the standards be set by imperfect bureaucrats? Indeed. Nonetheless, students are in school to learn a baseline of information to enable them to function in society.
Using an example of other inner city communities where children are not reaching standards set for them does not in my opinion remove this very problematic situation in the Haredi/Hasidic schools. Perhaps if Yehoshua would have compared the performance of the private religious schools to the achievement of schools in middle and upper income school districts it would have been far more disconcerting for you and the listeners.
There was a very recent study in Israel that showcased that many of the lowest performing schools were in Haredi (and Bedouin) communities. The poorest cities in Israel are often also Haredi communities. As these communities continue to grow, an existential question has to be addressed: Can Israel survive - as it is surrounded by several hostile nations - if it becomes a heavily poor and (secular) uneducated country? It is compounded by the fact of low military service stemming from the same community. It is one thing when the Haredim were a small percentage of Israel. But, as it continues to grow in real and proportional numbers, these are real questions that need to be addressed head on.
Thank you for the always interesting, funny and enjoyable podcast.
🚨emergency pod! So glad you two talked about this and Yehoshua was amazing. I love when I can get a better understanding of Orthodox life.
And I loved what Chaya Leah said about families staying in touch even if someone decides to leave. As a secular GenX Jew it was always understood that people were disowned when they left.
It’s obvious to say but the money and politics part of the piece was too much. New Yorkers seem to think the Orthodox in Brooklyn make or break elections and politicians cower at their whim. Maybe district elections matter but I just don’t think Jews have the numbers (as a whole) and Orthodox are a fraction. ELI LAKE, if you’re listening ...
Lots of thoughts and feelings about this one. I feel terrible for the Orthodox fam in Brooklyn.
Thank you for having Jason on and engaging in a relevant topic. His commentary of the NYT article gave me more talking points for defending the value of a Jewish education and perhaps WHY the “ attack “ is occurring ( thumb in the eye) of progressives ( he didn’t say progressives but that’s who the NYT, politicians in NY are). The progressives are attacking all religion in order that they eliminate them so the woke, Marxist cult of progressivism can prevail.
My son studies in a Yeshiva in Israel and I understand the value of learning the teachings of the Torah. The NYT article and “ investigation” had no nuance or mention of the value of Torah which teaches math, physics, ethics, and so on. Dismissing a Jewish education as they have indicates ignorance as well.
Additionally, there was no mention of successful graduates of Jewish schools in NY. What would they, this is a hack job.
As a wayward Jew, I found this conversation very thoughtful and edifying. A point toward the end that stuck with me was about how it is best (or maybe only possible) to try to change things within a community from the inside or by going through internal channels. I can’t help but think of glaring counter-examples in the Catholic church’s sex abuse scandal, as well as the recently reported sex abuses in Southern Baptist churches. In these instances, the communities’ leadership clearly failed catastrophically when repeatedly confronted with complaints from within and only when the abuses were made public - even going so far as to involve the secular legal system - did meaningful change begin. And I’m sure these are not the only examples. These are of course extreme, and I’m not drawing parallels here to the Hasidic communities on the education issue or any other. But don’t these examples complicate the general idea that change of any kind and on any issue must happen only from within a community?
I loved the podcast. I also wanted to point out that chareidim pay school taxes just like the rest of the population but do not send their kids to public schools. Only a tiny portion trickles back into their school system.
Hi! Thank you for the very engaging podcast. Your guest made many good points about the enriching nature of the Haredi/Hasidic communities. Certainly emphasizing the problematic history of the NYT in reference to covering many aspects of the Jewish world is worth highlighting.
However... I fundamentally believe all schools - private, public, secular, religious - need to have certain expectations in reference to teaching a wide range of fundamental subjects: English, Math, Science, History, etc... Will many students not meet these standards? Of course. Will some schools and teachers be less then adequate? Yes. Will some of the standards be set by imperfect bureaucrats? Indeed. Nonetheless, students are in school to learn a baseline of information to enable them to function in society.
Using an example of other inner city communities where children are not reaching standards set for them does not in my opinion remove this very problematic situation in the Haredi/Hasidic schools. Perhaps if Yehoshua would have compared the performance of the private religious schools to the achievement of schools in middle and upper income school districts it would have been far more disconcerting for you and the listeners.
There was a very recent study in Israel that showcased that many of the lowest performing schools were in Haredi (and Bedouin) communities. The poorest cities in Israel are often also Haredi communities. As these communities continue to grow, an existential question has to be addressed: Can Israel survive - as it is surrounded by several hostile nations - if it becomes a heavily poor and (secular) uneducated country? It is compounded by the fact of low military service stemming from the same community. It is one thing when the Haredim were a small percentage of Israel. But, as it continues to grow in real and proportional numbers, these are real questions that need to be addressed head on.
Thank you for the always interesting, funny and enjoyable podcast.
🚨emergency pod! So glad you two talked about this and Yehoshua was amazing. I love when I can get a better understanding of Orthodox life.
And I loved what Chaya Leah said about families staying in touch even if someone decides to leave. As a secular GenX Jew it was always understood that people were disowned when they left.
It’s obvious to say but the money and politics part of the piece was too much. New Yorkers seem to think the Orthodox in Brooklyn make or break elections and politicians cower at their whim. Maybe district elections matter but I just don’t think Jews have the numbers (as a whole) and Orthodox are a fraction. ELI LAKE, if you’re listening ...
Lots of thoughts and feelings about this one. I feel terrible for the Orthodox fam in Brooklyn.
Here’s a good article from Tablet. The author was on Monday’s Commentary Magazine podcast https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/plot-against-hasidic-education-new-york-times
And the pod: https://www.commentary.org/john-podhoretz/the-great-yeshiva-slander/
Thank you for this episode. Thank you for putting things in context and for confronting double standards. I’m officially a paid subscriber now!!!!! 🖤
Thank you for having Jason on and engaging in a relevant topic. His commentary of the NYT article gave me more talking points for defending the value of a Jewish education and perhaps WHY the “ attack “ is occurring ( thumb in the eye) of progressives ( he didn’t say progressives but that’s who the NYT, politicians in NY are). The progressives are attacking all religion in order that they eliminate them so the woke, Marxist cult of progressivism can prevail.
My son studies in a Yeshiva in Israel and I understand the value of learning the teachings of the Torah. The NYT article and “ investigation” had no nuance or mention of the value of Torah which teaches math, physics, ethics, and so on. Dismissing a Jewish education as they have indicates ignorance as well.
Additionally, there was no mention of successful graduates of Jewish schools in NY. What would they, this is a hack job.
As a wayward Jew, I found this conversation very thoughtful and edifying. A point toward the end that stuck with me was about how it is best (or maybe only possible) to try to change things within a community from the inside or by going through internal channels. I can’t help but think of glaring counter-examples in the Catholic church’s sex abuse scandal, as well as the recently reported sex abuses in Southern Baptist churches. In these instances, the communities’ leadership clearly failed catastrophically when repeatedly confronted with complaints from within and only when the abuses were made public - even going so far as to involve the secular legal system - did meaningful change begin. And I’m sure these are not the only examples. These are of course extreme, and I’m not drawing parallels here to the Hasidic communities on the education issue or any other. But don’t these examples complicate the general idea that change of any kind and on any issue must happen only from within a community?
Oh, the rich irony of the phrase "failing private schools." I regularly cancel and resubscribe to NYT for headlines like these.