You people are going to make me watch this, aren’t you? I’ll be back with thoughts!
Oh! P.S. loved the last episode and I really hate to say it but to my American ears, David’s citizenship experience felt like racial discrimination. It brought up thoughts about an idealized vision of yourself and sometimes what the reality is and collective shame. I had already been thinking about this because of Tyre Nichols and how the five black cops were a shonda for the black community. I felt deeply for the black community having to experience that.
P.P.S. Yael, do Israelis celebrate Valentine’s Day? Feels like it would be weird to venerate a Saint in Israel but can we ever resist the temptation of a holiday centered around chocolate?
Just watched! Oh boy. That was a very uncomfortable movie. Julia Louis Dreyfus’s character was a lot to take in. Overall, better than I thought. Very cute ending.
I could’ve listened to you three talk for another hour+. I loved when you two were talking about religious practice and the difference between having to learn and having it be second nature.
The trailer was so bad that I knew I wasn't going to watch it anyway. I don't really "hate watch" shows. Buy then your recent guest, Lahav, did a full Substack take down of You People and I'm so glad I didn't watch.
I really did not like this movie. When I watched it I didn’t know anything about it. Full of the usual stereotypes about Jews. Hated it. Thought it was very antisemitic. The Jews were idiots while Eddie Murphy came across as rational and strong. Also, where did the idea that Jews were slaveowners come from?
I read a post on the r/askahistorian subreddit about this and apparently while there were some Jewish slave owners (as well as slave owners of every other ethnicity), they were not the primary group of slave owners, and actually there were more black people that owned slaves than Jewish people. And it became overstated that jews were slave owners bc of some Jewish academics that wrote books about Jewish involvement in the slave trade in an attempt to give a nuanced history that jews were not always the oppressed victims. However in doing so they also kind of did it too much where it became exaggerated.
Yeah the ask a historian response I read made it seem like of the Jews that were involved it was likely more bc they were assimilated Dutch Jews and were involved in trade in the Dutch Caribbeans and Americas but it wasn’t out of the ordinary for what was considered normal back then and it was not like they were the leading demographic of this practice
Exactly, that's why it was so surprising. I'm sure Larry David wasn't thrilled to have documented slaveholders in the family, but the absurdity of it blew his mind a little. I think there was a similar moment when Wanda Sykes found out she had free people of color in her family who participated in slaveholding, too. The most cringe was Reba McIntyre, who asked, "Did you find out anything about how they treated their people?" Like, maybe they were better than most slaveholders? I guess she was clinging to some hope that there was more to the story, but I prefer David's out and out abashedness. What are you going to do? History is miserable, God knows what our forebears did before history. Shudder.
Didnt watch it yet but sure Jonah Hill fills the prime liberal progressive Jewish directive. Kiss BLM ass at all costs to earn progressive Hollywood and Black community points, usually unsucessfully. We have already heard what fellow travelers Seth Rogen and Marc Maron think.
As I type, I'm carefully avoiding everyone else's comments!
1. The loudest laugh of the movie was Andrew Schulz "I stormed the Capitol."
2. Intersectionality makes for wooden characters and predictable plotting. The apology scene was mathematical in its symmetry. It felt pretty fake despite all the wonderful comedians and actors. I mean, they did a lot with a heavy handed script.
3. I'd like to see a freer, less Woke Hallmark version of this film.
4. It was beautiful to watch and I did enjoy a lot of the performances. I get the impression that Jonah Hill and Kenya Barris don't actual know any religious or conservative people.
Oh, and to address your question: it was presented as an even-handed critique of NOI and Jewish culture but I think they went quite soft on the woman's family. And yes, every single money and power stereotype went pretty much unanswered.
I did not watch it but it is not surprising that it was cringe 😬
I cringed alot and laughed. But not being black or Jewish, I was not sure how to feel. 😬
This is a fair review!
You people are going to make me watch this, aren’t you? I’ll be back with thoughts!
Oh! P.S. loved the last episode and I really hate to say it but to my American ears, David’s citizenship experience felt like racial discrimination. It brought up thoughts about an idealized vision of yourself and sometimes what the reality is and collective shame. I had already been thinking about this because of Tyre Nichols and how the five black cops were a shonda for the black community. I felt deeply for the black community having to experience that.
P.P.S. Yael, do Israelis celebrate Valentine’s Day? Feels like it would be weird to venerate a Saint in Israel but can we ever resist the temptation of a holiday centered around chocolate?
Just watched! Oh boy. That was a very uncomfortable movie. Julia Louis Dreyfus’s character was a lot to take in. Overall, better than I thought. Very cute ending.
Uncomfortable is a good word to use!!!
We didn’t get too deep into the racial aspect of this case. It’s an interesting angle that I’d like to explore.
I could’ve listened to you three talk for another hour+. I loved when you two were talking about religious practice and the difference between having to learn and having it be second nature.
re: valentines day, YES! And to make it worse, we have a Jewish valentines day as well, which is called Tu B'Av.
I feel culturally appropriated. St valentine's day is meant to be about grisly martyrdom
The trailer was so bad that I knew I wasn't going to watch it anyway. I don't really "hate watch" shows. Buy then your recent guest, Lahav, did a full Substack take down of You People and I'm so glad I didn't watch.
I really did not like this movie. When I watched it I didn’t know anything about it. Full of the usual stereotypes about Jews. Hated it. Thought it was very antisemitic. The Jews were idiots while Eddie Murphy came across as rational and strong. Also, where did the idea that Jews were slaveowners come from?
I read a post on the r/askahistorian subreddit about this and apparently while there were some Jewish slave owners (as well as slave owners of every other ethnicity), they were not the primary group of slave owners, and actually there were more black people that owned slaves than Jewish people. And it became overstated that jews were slave owners bc of some Jewish academics that wrote books about Jewish involvement in the slave trade in an attempt to give a nuanced history that jews were not always the oppressed victims. However in doing so they also kind of did it too much where it became exaggerated.
Very interesting. Thank you for responding.
I got the impression from Henry Gates/Larry David's genealogy show that Jewish slaveholders were rare. LD's response was so Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Yeah the ask a historian response I read made it seem like of the Jews that were involved it was likely more bc they were assimilated Dutch Jews and were involved in trade in the Dutch Caribbeans and Americas but it wasn’t out of the ordinary for what was considered normal back then and it was not like they were the leading demographic of this practice
Exactly, that's why it was so surprising. I'm sure Larry David wasn't thrilled to have documented slaveholders in the family, but the absurdity of it blew his mind a little. I think there was a similar moment when Wanda Sykes found out she had free people of color in her family who participated in slaveholding, too. The most cringe was Reba McIntyre, who asked, "Did you find out anything about how they treated their people?" Like, maybe they were better than most slaveholders? I guess she was clinging to some hope that there was more to the story, but I prefer David's out and out abashedness. What are you going to do? History is miserable, God knows what our forebears did before history. Shudder.
https://youtu.be/vwAc5wc3DFo
Larry David 2:33 "You did it! I knew it!"
I’m going to watch the movie this weekend (but not on Shabbat!) but I think they might be referring to a book put out by the Nation of Islam that propagated the Jews Started the Slave Trade™️ trope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Blacks_and_Jews
Like most things antisemitic, it ascribes outsized power and influence to Jews
Yup classic conspiracies just through the logic of American history
Pretty much agree
Okay, okay, I'll watch it 😘
Didnt watch it yet but sure Jonah Hill fills the prime liberal progressive Jewish directive. Kiss BLM ass at all costs to earn progressive Hollywood and Black community points, usually unsucessfully. We have already heard what fellow travelers Seth Rogen and Marc Maron think.
I laughed. I cringed. I rolled my eyes. Sometimes all in the same minute.
Oh god. I’m up to the bachelor and bachelorette party and this movie is so hard to watch! 🙈 not as bad as I thought but it’s a lot
Lol
As I type, I'm carefully avoiding everyone else's comments!
1. The loudest laugh of the movie was Andrew Schulz "I stormed the Capitol."
2. Intersectionality makes for wooden characters and predictable plotting. The apology scene was mathematical in its symmetry. It felt pretty fake despite all the wonderful comedians and actors. I mean, they did a lot with a heavy handed script.
3. I'd like to see a freer, less Woke Hallmark version of this film.
4. It was beautiful to watch and I did enjoy a lot of the performances. I get the impression that Jonah Hill and Kenya Barris don't actual know any religious or conservative people.
Oh, and to address your question: it was presented as an even-handed critique of NOI and Jewish culture but I think they went quite soft on the woman's family. And yes, every single money and power stereotype went pretty much unanswered.
Andrew was a highlight!